death. >> you put layers over that pain. it doesn't go away. >> baby princess mother, her first and only television interview on what pushed her daughter over the edge and what they shiz could have saved phoebe. >> i think that had school intervened that phoebe would still be here. absolutely. >> phoebe prince's mother and her brother, worldwide exclusive. this is piers morgan tonight. good evening, a busy day on the campaign trail today. here is herman cain. moments ago at his campaign headquarters in manchester, new hampshire. on a day when he's gone from he said, she said to will he or won't he? >> mr. cain? jim acosta. are you vowing to stay in this race? is that your message? >> we're reassessing and re-evaluating. >> reporter: are you staying in the race?

>> how soon until we have a final answer on your future plans? >> we'll be making a decision in the next several days. >> thank you, sir. >> sounds like he's re-evaluating and reassessment. cain told fox news he'll fly home over the weekend to talk to his family face-to-face and says that the atlanta woman hassal tearer motives. >> we have no idea who it is. but i just happen to know that the reason that i was trying to help her as a friend financially is because she was in some deep financial problems about to not even be able to pay her rent. so i don't know who's behind it. but at this point, we're going to try to figure out as much as we can. because this is a direct character assassination. >> two gop hopefuls are with us tonight, ron paul. congressman, welcome. >> thank you.

>> i just have to start with herman cain. the herman cain train as they call it seems to have hit the buffers. politically, are you getting the sense that it's all over? is he toast? >> well, it's hard for me to know. i guess it's anybody's guess. but i wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't wait it out and does the caucus in iowa and new hampshire election. but, you know, who knows? he could decide tomorrow what he's going to do and drop out. i have no idea. >> do you feel sympathy for him? >> i don't know about sympathy. i wish we didn't have to talk about it. i wish if he is having political troubles and he has to drop out, i'd rather him drop out because he used to work for the federal reserve and he wants to give us a national sales tax. that, to me, has a great deal of effect on all americans if those kind of policies would be

accepted. >> i mean do you think he would be married to your wife for 55 years, do you think kind of allegation, personal issues, are they still as relevant do you think to the electorate? never mind washington but to the electorate as they used to be? >> probably not. i mean if you take what happened to bill clinton, it didn't seem to bother his re-electability. i don't think so. but, you know, i place a little blame on the media. there is a lot of dwelling on this. but it's just too bad we don't talk about the issues more than we talk about. they take up so much time and energy being put into this. but on the other side is people do deserve to know about the people they're voting on, too. >> now you are in new hampshire now. and the race is holding up big

time. we're a few weeks away from when it gets really serious. newt gingrich appears to be on a roll. the latest polls from new hampshire suggest he's doing well there. he's surging in florida. clearly a band wagon growing behind him. what do you make of this? >> well, i guess you could compare it to many others that have done this. you know, two weeks ago herman cain was at the top. so things do change. and they change for three or four already. so i think only time will tell. and i think we stick to what we've been doing for the last year working in iowa and new hampshire. and we don't go up and down. we grat gradually go up and steadily go up. i think that's a health yea way to -- healthy way to do it. we're in second or third place. and we're in double digits. so we feel comfortable about that. but so far we haven't had any

spurts. we want to have a spurt at the last minute, you know, when the election occurs. >> they say can you always tell who is a front-runner because all the rivals launch attack ads. you called perry a serial hypocrite. explain yourself, mr. paul. >> he's had different positions on a lot of the ish sues and doing environmental ads with nancy pelosi and supporting bailouts and all these things. he's been flip-flopping in his medical position, his hardly free market medicine and pointing out those things and how he's on every side of the issue. he hardly can declare himself now a conservative. you know, when he first ran, he described himself as a rockefeller type republican. and that used to be, you know, a pretty serious charge. so, no, he didn't identify with

the conservatives when he was in kang even though verbally he might. but his positions weren't all that conservative. >> congressman, today the economy got a huge boost. the central banks and the fed all got involved and as a result of their direct intervention, markets around the world have surged today. one of the biggest leaps in nearly three years. is this bad news for the republicans? i mean if this has the desired effect on the global economy and impact favorably on jobs. is barack obama sitting pretty? >> time will tell. the markets responded. this is a sign of desperation. and it's also a sign that our dollars are going to be used to bail out europe and the banks over there. the banks are in hawk with all this debt. they don't want the banks to go under. many of the banks have, you

know, a branch from american banks and there is credit default swaps that can be used if they don't bail them out. so this is buying on bad debt. i think it shows how serious the problem is. and they're reacting in a very, very major manner. but it's bad for the dollar. it's bad for the persons in power of our money much it's bad for the inflation that's coming. and they haven't done anything. as a matter of fact this is exactly opposite of what needs to be done. when a world is swimming in debt and malinvestment, you have to get rid of it. in the last 50 years or, so people refuse to do it. and what they do is prop up the debt or they take the debt from the sovereign states or from the banks and they bail them out just as we did in '08 and '09. it's a worldwide phenomenon. and they know how serious it is. but the solution that they're proposing is only prolonging the agony. that means it's going to be a lot longer until we get real growth in the world economy

again. >> congressman, it's been a pleasure as always. i'm going to leave you for one of your rivals who is waiting, chomping at the bit. thank you very much for now. >> all right. thank you. >> and that rival, of course, is former senator rick santorum. senator, how are you? >> i'm doing great, piers. thanks for having me on. >> my pleasure. you're'doing very well in the polls. let's cut to the quick. you are seriously struggling. what are you going to do to save the day for your campaign? >> what matters is what's going on in the polls. if you look at what's going on in iowa and you read the reports and you talk to the activists and the people that show up to the caucuses and as was mentioned, 120,000 people came to the caucuses.

we've been to all 99 counties. we've had over 250 town hall meetings. we've built a strong organization. there, as i might add, kongman paul has done. he spent time there and built that organization. >> let me jump in. i was actually referring to a local poll, the new hampshire poll. and you were bottom of the table with 1%. >> yeah, again, doinlt i don't really worry about new hampshire polls. once we win iowa and i really do believe we'll win iowa, once we win iowa, those polls in new hampshire and south carolina and the country will dramatically change just like they've changed over the past six months or four, five different candidates who have gone from 1% or 2% all the way to 20% and 30%. the american public has not focused on this election. i would make the argument that most people in new hampshire have not started to focus on this election. it doesn't mean much now. they're going to start over the next few weeks as we get down to these caucuses in iowa, they're

going to start focussing and we're going to come up in the polls and do better on caucus day than the polls indicate. because we've got the strong organization and we spent the time on the ground that these other candidates haven't. and the same goes with new hampshire, i might add. >> when i talked to you before, you know, you're a man of strong morality. you have strong feelings about this. what do you think if herman cain's crisis that he's in, where he's being hit with this slew of sexual allegations? >> what karen and i do in all of these races is we pray for all of the folks that have to go through this very difficult process. and we do it every day. this is a very tough business. and, you know, a lot of horrible things are said and thrown at candidates every single day. my job is to just, you know, not make -- have it be a distraction

for us. and it's not been. we continue to talk about how we're going to create jobs and how we're going to con front a potential nuclear run and eniran and what to do about that and strengthen the american family. all of those are important to america and that's what our campaign is focused on. all we do is pray for herm an an as we do every other candidate. >> you spoke very emotionally, very recently about your daughter. she's 3 1/2 years old. she has this awful condition. and you're having to spend all this time on the campaign trail. you know, every candidate goes through a lot of self-sacrifice for them and their families. how's it been for you in particular living with this and having to run for president? >> oh, it's very difficult. we knew that. i mean karen and i and the kids, we prayed a lot about it. we talked a lot about it. and, you know, our daughter who is the absolute joy of our family, she is just this pure smiles and joy and we just love her to death.

she really does -- she is the center of our life and our family. and it's hard. it's hard to be away from her. i'll see her later tonight. i'll be with her tomorrow. but there are a lot of days and nights that i'm not around and that's a sacrifice. but we, again, we really did think long and hard and pray long and hard about whether this was the right thing for us to be -- i was going to be the best father. what would i do? i really believe going out and making sure that america is free and safe and prosperous and making sure that our children are not saddled with an oppressive government health care system that over time will not provide the kind of access to care for those on the margins of life as we go to a utilitarian view of how health care is managed. these children and other countries around the world simply do not get the access to care that they thankfully do here in the united states. and that's -- that to me was a higher calling. at least in the short term for

bella and for our family. >> rick santorum, pleasure talking to you again. best of luck. >> thank you so much, piers. i really appreciate the opportunity. >> thank you. tomorrow, i'll have an exclusive interview with herman cain's attorney which promises to be very revealing. he says and i quote, it will be the talk of the town. so we'll see. that's my exclusive interview herman cain's attorney tomorrow night. whether we come back, penn state coach jerry sandusky, complete with shocking new details. daddy, come in the water! [ gnome ] awwwwwwww. i just feel bloody awful. she told tiffany, stephanie, jenny and becky that she was coming to a place like this! but somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! ♪ [ gnome ] somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee.

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sandusky is part of the penn state family, we all are and i feel shame. >> interesting comment from a town hall meeting. it comes on the heels of the first lawsuit from a man who claimed to be sexual lay saulted by jerry sandusky more than 100 time as a child and joining me to detail this terrible story is his attorney jeff anderson. he specialized in sex abuse cases. thank you for joining me. this is particularly awful, even by the stapd ardz of ndards of we've been hearing on the case. the lawsuit claims that your client john doe was raped ashgs bussed hundreds of times in multiple locations by jerry sandusky and even out of state bowl game. the obvious question is why did your client keep his silence all

these years? >> well, i think a fair question and i think it really requires us to really understand how sexual abuse by authority figures like sandusky coerce silence and secrecy and shame and cause this survivor and other victims like him to really believe that they're being cared for and to believe that it's their fault. and so they suffer in silence, blaming themselves and also believing that they won't be believed. usually when there is abuse by powerful authority figures, it takes years or decades to break the silence. >> i want to play you a clip

from jerry sandusky's attorney. he spoke to cnn early better his client. let's listen to this. >> if you know jerry, they say he is a big kid and he always has been. when he plays with the kids and interacts with them whether it's playing football or wrestling or whatever he's just like a kid. and i think the people that know jerry understand that about jerry. and i think that will come out as the case progresses. >> what does your client feel when he hears that jerry is a big old kid? >> well, what he feels and what every survivor feels when they hear that kind of denial and minimization is fury. because there is a tendency of people like we just heard to want to believe the most powerful and effective among us

like jerry sandusky wouldn't do something like this. he couldn't do something like this. we don't want to believe it. and when survivors and courageous survivors with whom we work every day hear denial like that and everybody coming to the aid and rally of the powerful offender or accused offender, it causes them a great deal of anxiety and compounds oftentimes the harm that's already been done. >> one of the most sickening aspects of your client's claims and lawsuits and they are claims, i'll read the statements. but he was groomed as a young child through this second mile charity which is just grotesque. what do you feel about the way the charity was set up, about the other victims who may have been abused under the umbrella of this charity? what should happen to him now?

>> well, what i feel is important as what we need to really do and the question we need to ask first is why did jerry sandusky for as long as he did be allowed to do what he did for decades to so many kids while so many people around him saw the signs or got the reports and did nothing and chose instead to protect him and the institution. and that's the real question. it's painful question and the answer is even more painful. they chose to protect their reputation, the power, and the man that they believed couldn't and wouldn't do this instead of the kids. and they put that reputation and that institution first.

and that is the answer that really requires the hard and rigorous lesson to be learned. we have to heed the signs and the signals. this grand jury report said that there were 17 men that either received reports or saw it and didn't act. >> okay. jeff anderson, i have to leave it there. thank you very much for coming on the show. i will out of fairness now read two statements, one from penn state, they say we have not yet receive copies of the documents filed with the court. we're unable to comment on specifics related to the case. and the statement from the second mile charity, we will review the lawsuit and respond appropriately when we have done so. the second mile will adhere to its legal responsibilities throughout this process as always our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. families. an aarp...

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phoebe prince's suicide after being bullied by school classmates drew worldwide attention from deadly dangers of bullying. two years later, children are still dying. this last week a 10-year-old illinois girl took her own life after what her parents say was intense bullying in her school. joining me now is anna o'brien, phoebe prince's mother in her first and only television interview. ann, thank you very much for agreeing to do this interview. why are you doing it? >> well, i think a lot of mistruths have been written about phoebe and i think that it was time to take her back to reclaim her as ours and to put an end to some of the stories that have been going around.

>> there has been so much speculation about what happened to phoebe. were you taken back by the worldwide attention? >> very much so. >> didn't expect it at all. but the media got involved pretty much the evening of phoebe's death when the superintendent released her name. and it started a whirlwind of intrusion and interest. and the following week the principal and others sent a letter to all the parents and they posted on the school website and they called phoebe complicated and that she had been seen in adjustment counseling even though she only

saw this woman once. >> let's go back to the start here, ann. let's get this in order. it is important to do. i want to know how you feel about every step of the way here. you bring a family from ireland to america in the summer of 2009. why did you do that? what was the motivation? >> i was taking a career break. and teaching -- i was going -- well, i did, teach in the states. and i thought the girls would get a taste of america. it could be a fantastic year for them. >> were you worried about how your children would react when you came to america? how they would adapt? >> no, not really. they were both excited about it. i think lauren -- lauren struggled a bit more than phoebe. phoebe fit right in at the beginning of the school year. >> what kind of girl was she, phoebe? >> oh, extraordinarily

intelligent and vivacious and great sense of humor. and a foodie. she loved her food. constantly was eating and not putting on any weight. it really wasn't fair. >> was she a confident girl? >> in ways, she was. and in other ways, she wasn't. and i don't think she -- she wouldn't have been outgoing in some ways and other ways she would have. i don't know how to describe it. >> how did all this play out? when you enroll phoebe at the school, you did tell the officials she was susceptible to bullying? >> i did. i did.

and that she was vulnerable. the guidance counsellor who i met with -- >> why did you say that? what made you feel that? >> phoebe, she had -- she had a run in with some girls before. >> ireland? >> yeah. but nothing -- nothing too dramatic dramatic. but phoebe would be -- phoebe kept things to herself. she internalized a lot of pain or stressful situations. so my point of warning the school or, you know, advising the school was that she wouldn't necessarily come right out at the beginning and say oh, this is happening. she would initially internalize it. >> you were doing this as a mother but also as a teacher

yourself. so you know how schools can work. you know how some kids can prey on vulnerable people in a school situation. so you laid down a marker. you said just keep an eye on phoebe because she's had a bit of a problem with bullies before. >> yes. >> oh, that will be no problem. and one of the vice principals was called on a personal call and asked to keep an eye out for phoebe? >> they knew right from the start there was the potential for trouble. whether did you discover for the first time phoebe was being bullied? >> november. and it happened, i suppose, 14th, 15th of november. she was very agitated and said to -- and she was getting a ream of texts. i said what's going on? she said oh, the girls are at me.

and i said who? she said you don't want to know. you doan want to n't want to . it will blow over, mommy. it will blow over. and i said well, you know, you need to tell. you need to let me know. no. no. it will blow over. it will blow over. and thn a couple day couple days later the adjustment counsellor rang me from school and left a message that she had met phoebe for the very first time. and that she thought she was just wonderful and charming. and phoebe could be very charming. and that she thought it would be a good idea for me to just check in with her. and that -- that there was nothing to worry about. >> what kind of thing was going on now with phoebe? what were the girls doing to her? or did you deduce? >> well, once in december she told me that one of the girls involved

involved, um, in the new incident of bullying kept coming up to her in the hallways and screaming at her. and phoebe was therement and we were in the kitchen. phoebe was there with a friend of hers who said oh, yeah. she's known for that. and she does it quite a bit to a lot of people. and phoebe and i discussed it. >> did she know that the girls were using social media like facebook and so on to bully her as well? >> but she wasn't -- the bullying on facebook, the cyber bullying that has been put out by people was just a small component of the bullying of phoebe. and, yet, it's been taken on as it was predominantly cyber

bullying. and yet, it was very little. most of it, i think, a lot of the nasty comments were put on facebook after phoebe died. there were a couple that were put on before. there was one girl who she would have considered a friend and she was one of the girls who was afterwards i found out was one of the girls getting at her, that she said, in november. she put a nasty message on twitter or something the week that phoebe died. >> let's take a little break, ann, come back and talk about the day that phoebe died and the aftermath. because a terrible situation became, if it can become worse, became worse by the way everyone reacted. >> it's okay. we're going have a break.

it should be revealed to people what she was being subjected to. and unfortunately, until january 7th, we were not aware of what she was being subjected to. so there is very little way we could have intervened in the bullying that took place. >> that is the school superintendent. he spoke to cnn months after phoebe principle prince's ide. come take me back to this awful day that you discovered that phoebe had taken her life.

>> it was stunning. i knew she was under stress. and i was worried for her safety. and i had told her that the night before i had called the school the week before and spoke again to the adjustment counsellor which was probably about the third time i spoken with her since november. and shocked. stunned. you don't expect to come home and -- and find that your amazing kid has been push ed ed so far.

and i booked her a ticket to return to ireland to take a break. and she just needed to hold on for two weeks. and i was at a loss to explain to anyone exactly how intense it had become because i wasn't being told by the school. and i remember telling the police she was being bullied. you know, this is bright, beautiful girl. >> i mean it's an appalling litany of abuse on her last day. she was in the school library.

someone had written swear words and racial slurs next to her name. after school they chanted profanities at her. they threw a can of energy drink over her. this is taking bullying to a whole new level. this is a systematic abuse of somebody, isn't it? >> oh, yeah. yes, it is. it was almost torment. >> one of the bullies the next day was overheard saying done. posted on facebook. >> we -- >> i mean i can't think of a more callous thing for somebody to do. to drive somebody to suicide and they just but done on facebook? >> well, she got what she deserved, that was another one. >> another one was overheard saying apparently, why doesn't

someone just convince her to kill herself? i mean this is really -- it's depraved behavior by these other kids. what do you think was driving it? why were they so determined to force phoebe into what eventually happened? >> i honestly don't know. because it's -- that level of aggression towards another human being is just beyond my understanding. >> it's wicked, isn't it? >> it's astounding that there was never a stop mechanism, you know, internal stop mechanism for some of the kids to say this is going too far. but i also think the culture in the school helped enable that. >> the superintendent made it pretty clear.

don't blame us. it's not our fault. we knew nothing about any of this. >> yes. that's not true. >> what is your reaction when you see again him saying that so soon after phoebe died? >> it was -- it was very painful because, you noi, know, you realize as a parent, no matter what i did, no matter how many times i called the school, no matter how many people i might have spoken to there that she didn't stand a chance there. >> and she actually been herself to the vice principal's office to say a girl beat her up. >> i didn't know that until after she died. >> and she was told, there is no time for this. get over it. >> she was told to go back to class. >> how much do you blame the school? >> as a teacher or as a parent?

>> maybe both. is there a different answer? maybe both. >> with your teacher hat on because you would have been -- >> with my teacher hat on, absolutely the school failed. >> and as a mother? >> as a mother, i think that had the school intervened the way they should have intervened, if they had followed up the way they should have followed up that phoebe would still be here. absolutely. she would still be here. >> let's take another break, ann. i want to come back and talk to you about the dramatic development which was when the bullies were arrested and they had to be accountable for what they've done.

her final text messages were about shawn and the girls that tormented her. she wrote, "i think shawn condoning this is one of the final nails in my coffin.

i can't take much more. and it would be easier if he or any one of them handed me a noose." >> phoebe prince's mother reading phoebe's last prince to two of her bullies in court this past may. incredibly painful for you to have to go through the court case and also very important i would imagine for you that in a very unprecedented step, six of the bullies were arrested. they were treated as adults. they went through the court case. five were convicted. in the end, they didn't go to prison. they were given probation and community service. do you feel that justice was done? >> i'd like to actually clarify because i know that there are some journalist that's think that prison terms were on the cards.

we never asked for prison sentence. and it was never on the cards. it really was about accountability, taking responsibility, and we had specifically wanted a community service and probation. and that the community service would really give them a chance to reflect upon their actions. >> the reaction of the bullies was mixed and different, i would say. i want to play a clip of one of them. this is a curious reaction, i thought. >> i want people to not judge me. i want them to leave me alone. i want them to stop saying things to me and, you know, when i started school, people came up to me and told me to leave because they don't want me here i want that to stop.

>> it seemed a bit me, me, me, leave me alone look how my life was damaged when this girl was one of the people responsible for your daughter's death. >> well, we asked for a probationary -- probationary period and community service, so that's some reflection could take place. >> has she ever said anything to you, sharon? >> no. >> nothing? >> no. >> never wrote to you? >> no. >> did any of them write to you? >> no. i met with ashley. and ashley longe asked to me with me for a few times but it was after i returned to ireland, so when i came back for the dispositions in may, i agreed that i would meet with her.

>> of the bullies, caitlin was remorseful remorseful. i want to play you a clip of that. >> i am sorry for the unkind things i said to others about you. i am sorry about the unkind posting on my facebook page. but mostly i am sorry for january 14th of 2010. >> did you feel that remorse was sincere? >> i did. she used some of the same language that i had used in my victim impact statement. >> so it clearly had resonated with her in a little break. i want to bring out now somebody, the district attorney who brought the criminal charges against these bully >> i wish i could have known her, been her friend on

facebook, whatever, and told her that she wasn't the only one that would go it-to- to sleep at night crying because she felt insecure about herself.

according to the investigation, the harassment occurred while she studied in the school's library around lunch period, walked in the school's hallway near the end of school day, and after school as she walked on newton street toward her home. >> former district attorney, elizabeth, joins me now, along with -- you're betsy and beth, assistant d.a. the schools deal with bully, have zero. i see gus, so long after the event, there's a kind of denial

there in his behavior, i thought. did you pick up on that? >> oh, absolutely. there was a denial of any -- any -- not only wrong doing but i think any inaction that may have contributed to not protecting phoebe, and let's face it, the school had a duty to protect her while she was in school. >> and, beth, obviously, a very interesting decision, that they were tried as adults for legal purposes. how did that come about? what had been the implications of that for future cases now involving bullying? >> well, they were tried as youthful offenders, those that fit our -- that were under the age of 17. those that reached the age of 17 were tried as adults and that decision was made to try to keep some equality in relation to how they were going to be handled within the criminal justice system. i think it also sent a message in relation to our view that

these cases weren't going to be hidden behind the juvenile court system and its veil of seek crecy ecy. it needed to be put out in the public. it needed to have some kind of resonance that they were going to be very stiff consequences if this action continued in the future. >> there is now a phoebe's law in the state of massachusetts. in simple terms, what that is law? >> essentially what it does is mandate the schools to report incidences of bullying, should they believe that that -- an act is one of bullying. it also mandates, and i think, and i know beth agrees, what's really critical is the training for school personnel on what is relational aggression, what is bullying and how can that be stopped? and so that's really important,

and i hope that that will go on in the future and be the impetus for change. >> you set up a scholarship in phoebe's name. what would you like her legacy to be, given the appalling events that led to her death and the fact that nothing can bring her back. what would you like the legacy to be? >> well, ideally, i would like it to be that everyone treat each other in a civilized manner and no boundaries but i'm not too hopeful about that. >> you're not? >> no i -- no, i'm not. i -- i'm -- i think if i were to

say, oh yes, and now phoebe has died so everyone's going to now be nice to each other, that would be naive. >> i think that's right. i think the crucial aspect of this makes it different is the action that you took legally to bring these kids to book, to get some kind of accountability and actually if the legacy is that in future schools are more aware, take more action earlier, and some lives can be saved rather than lost, because of what's happened, that is at least a positive that comes out of this hell for you, isn't it? >> oh, absolutely. i think that betsy and beth have changed how bullying is view ed ed. if that's phoebe's legacy, then that's -- that's okay. >> anne, thank you very much. >> thank you.